00:00:00: Hi folks, here we are at Vision de Rail with director Emily Bougey.

00:00:05: So this is a special festival edition for you because it's your final addition!

00:00:09: You came to Vision de rail in two thousand and seventeen... ...you did nine editions And now you're moving on to the Geneva International Film Festival.

00:00:19: How do you feel about being a final addition?

00:00:22: Well I feel serene i have to say Because as u said its my ninth edition long time, before that I was in the programming team at the selection committee for five years.

00:00:33: Feel like i have done what I was aiming to do with vision du réel ,I feel like the festival has changed and evolved over the past nine years .

00:00:41: And I'm quite happy about how it looks now.

00:00:42: so I felt like passing it on a good state !

00:00:45: And also its important both of me and for this festival.

00:00:50: move forward and get new energy!

00:00:52: Get a new project!

00:00:52: A new challenge!

00:00:53: Get an new

00:00:54: face!!

00:00:54: For the festivals... So..i think is'sa good timing.

00:00:57: Do you know who will be your successor or is it still up in the air?

00:01:00: No,

00:01:01: they are at beginning of process.

00:01:04: The call is open right now so its going to be a few more months before we know

00:01:08: This actually something that you should get into another point how our festival director has chosen but I am here with Emily.

00:01:15: How did make this decision move on from Vision de Real to Geneva Festival?

00:01:22: Was Vision de real getting too small because it grew much under Euro supervision?

00:01:28: No, I think it's not too small at all.

00:01:30: It is rather big and as you say has grown with me needs another challenge.

00:01:41: So I really feel like for me, it's a good moment to move on to another festival and change there.

00:01:48: The Festival is very different one.

00:01:50: It's focusing actually opening up new things both cinema series and VR And taking over the festival in a different city with different infrastructures as well because Nyon of course takes place in this particular town which is rather small.

00:02:09: So it creates both something really special because you can meet everyone and the festival.

00:02:14: The city becomes a festival, but its also limiting in some regards And so I'm curious and excited to try run another festival change Bring it into an other phase hopefully make is bigger and positionate different matter.

00:02:28: The main changes from outside that we brought to Viseon du Réel Is that star factor has grown.

00:02:35: That's interesting because documentary cinema isn't associated with big stars as fiction film.

00:02:42: Werner Herzog has been here, Claire Denny, Raul Peck was here the last year.

00:02:46: this year it's Kelly Reichardt and that is also another interesting point because Kelly Reichhardt while her work has a decisive documentary influence she´s not classical documentary filmmaker.

00:02:57: most of her works would actually be classified as fiction.

00:02:59: Would you like to talk about your process on making these changes?

00:03:04: What influenced do you own view on documentaries Film and fiction?

00:03:09: film

00:03:09: first.

00:03:10: I'm not using trying to avoid the world documentary which I think is like bringing way too many references and things that i don't really necessarily want to associate with.

00:03:20: I prefer non-fiction also although it's negative, which is not great of course!

00:03:23: I think for me the most important idea behind what we are doing here is very strong artistic voices ,very strong authors views so its about how someone is looking at something.

00:03:35: And in my experience, sometimes this takes the shape of you know very hybrid forms or very Sometimes fiction leaning form because somehow if you want to tell something and it's not happening exactly The way you won't in front of your eyes.

00:03:55: Maybe you're gonna use other tools too To express.

00:03:57: what do I wanna Express?

00:03:58: Even like If You go back to the roots of Cinema Verity... ...you will see that things have always been staged Things are framed and things are edited.

00:04:06: It's cinema!

00:04:07: It is an artform so..it a construction all-in-all, nonfiction of fiction.

00:04:11: And I think that Kelly Reichard for me is an interesting figure although she's definitely someone who works with fiction because i think that you know... She works with fictions which are very slow and very much diving into the context where she shoots in.

00:04:25: Very much trying to have a narrative as pure as possible so they can dig into detail watch their characters become somehow certain images a certain US society.

00:04:40: So I think that and also, you know the fact she's a lot working in the margin again like questioning the U.S.

00:04:46: Society on trying to give her portrayal of it okay its true fiction.

00:04:50: but somehow i don't find yet so far fetched from what we do.

00:04:54: We know those productions at.

00:04:56: her production tends to be very economically modest because she wants keep freedom And spend more time...and..so that we want to defend.

00:05:08: To have identified figure in a festival such as ours is very helpful because, on the line-up... We've undergone a lot of new faces.

00:05:18: It's really important for me when you announce a lineup where there are many new faces You're gonna say hey look!

00:05:25: There were all those films by people who never heard before.

00:05:28: it was hard to try and explain what they would do If I had a lot first features from these people.

00:05:34: Those filmmakers give an idea that knows a bit of cinema.

00:05:38: If we have Werner Herzog, if we have Klerdonie and Kelly Reichardt there is certain idea for the kind of cinema you will find.

00:05:45: to me it's really helpful how figures help understand what are doing behind this amazing official selection get to discover new people and new films.

00:05:56: Actually,

00:05:56: the border between non-fiction and fiction is an interesting point as we're living in a time when it becomes harder and harder to actually even discern which is which thanks to AI images but also... thanks to films that strongly manipulate their viewers in terms of what is actually happening and not at the same time.

00:06:18: There's a very strong discussion going on about whether people should be censored for ethical reasons or other political reasons, how much does this influence your work?

00:06:34: And are there certain mechanisms at play

00:06:36: e.g.,

00:06:37: to discurrent AI images from from real images?

00:06:40: because I imagine that if you get hundreds and maybe thousands of films, how do we even make the decision when watching them?

00:06:46: Is it a real scene or is created by computer.

00:06:49: It's

00:06:49: very contemporary question for sure.

00:06:51: this year We had first time indeed film where we thought Maybe This is AI And were not sure Because we work with non-fiction.

00:06:59: Its Of course A Question That Is Quite Relevant Ethically and Politically.

00:07:03: If You Create An Image That Doesn't Exist If You Work On An Image two different things.

00:07:09: So for some films, we did contact the filmmakers to ask them whether it was AI or not saying you know... We need to know if its just a sequence you find somewhere Or is something that you created?

00:07:20: We needed to understand and If I were staying i would definitely change the rules in regulation And say next year That we want together hints on the submission that AI has been used.

00:07:29: In which way?

00:07:30: When we asked this year The person said they had found sequences online.

00:07:36: It's like from footage.

00:07:38: use AI to upscale it because there was too low definition, so that's of course not an issue.

00:07:43: We have several films in the program this year which uses AI as a tool for creating images where they are missing.

00:07:49: That is always also a question but you know... It's the same with animation.

00:07:53: for instance when we use animation for documentary then people say its animation cannot be a documentary.

00:08:00: and well ...we all know about it can!

00:08:01: So I think it really questions honesty Whether there is a political ethical matter that can be at stake, and it's an issue or whether the reasons.

00:08:13: In general I have nothing against using new tools to produce films... ...I think its fine.

00:08:18: we want to investigate those new possibilities but again you just need to work within specific frames.

00:08:25: The

00:08:25: same issues struck me in last year.

00:08:28: alot Is that AI also very present on texts.

00:08:33: You see around film festivals of course synopsis, descriptions of films.

00:08:38: then there are certain introduction tags but also all the reviews that are written.

00:08:42: How much are you concerned if at all about staff using AI to create film synopses or do for the festivals to discurrent between all those that are just using AI, To push out a text they have maybe changed a few words in and those who were actually still writing about festival.

00:09:05: For the reviews no I'm not really monitoring who is doing what, that we have many reviews and I feel like sometimes it's just a bit overwhelming.

00:09:14: so i tend not to read too much the press or sometimes afterwards later.

00:09:18: For the text that we write ,I think that We Have Two Formats one is short And One Is Long.

00:09:22: The long ones are rather personal Those Are Signed Tech!

00:09:25: And I Feel Like The Selection Committee After Having Watched Three Thousand Seven Hundred Films Has A Certain Ambition To Express Why We Have To Pick Those Films... I Do Not Feel Like We're Being Overwhelmed With AI At This Point But I mean, of course those tools are getting better and along the way it's possible that some people will feel attracted to them but at this point i don't think like its our case.

00:09:49: political fractures in the world.

00:09:52: Nonfiction films also faced with works that have more politically extreme points, how much does that influence your work as an artistic program director?

00:10:03: Do you find more works that has possibly problematic political positions or works where you say this is on one side and we cannot take it this end?

00:10:12: do You feel these political slide into festival programming?

00:10:15: I think that's way.

00:10:16: big firms.

00:10:17: We are in agreement politically, subjectively.

00:10:20: That is interesting because not every festival does that!

00:10:23: It's not like we are agreeing with everything being done and said in each film but I would for instance not want to pick a film which i find disturbing politically That's for sure.

00:10:34: It is also interesting, some films are disturbing me in some places but I find it rather fertile and we always... For instance when we fight a lot about the film because we disagree massively We tend to end up saying you know if we've been fighting for really long time that means there was something interesting And we can continue this discussion with Q&A.

00:10:53: So we feel like the festival has space for discussions.

00:10:57: Disagreement as well.

00:10:58: There' s space too have a variety of voices.

00:11:01: Sometimes they make mistakes where sometimes someone arrives and we see that, maybe misread the film when we talk with this person.

00:11:09: But it's also nice.

00:11:11: for me there is something deeply human... It can be great but not exactly how you want to say it.

00:11:18: in general of course we are programming films that we feel politically.

00:11:22: our defending position that we think are valuable For

00:11:25: you personally Is more important?

00:11:27: How a film feels on an artistic level or what it says on social.

00:11:32: I

00:11:33: mean, we definitely are on the side of cinema.

00:12:01: Filmmakers are nourished, they're kept close and come again to the festival.

00:12:07: Do you appreciate such structures or do think it's more like a form of lobbyism?

00:12:11: Well...

00:12:12: It depends how its done.

00:12:13: I mean.. You know To me there is definitely something for certain family For instance.

00:12:18: we have industry And if project taking part in this industry Sometimes also take later on the line up Of course way create relations.

00:12:27: So some projects.

00:12:30: would be nice to have that as a film later, if it ends up being as good as we think its gonna be.

00:12:34: But It's not pressure and I am also for instance very proud when We Have A First Feature That Works Well And The Second Feature Goes To Berlin.

00:12:43: You Know?

00:12:43: Im Like Thinking Its Annoying but on the other side im proud because i feel like we've helped someone come out.

00:12:48: then the second one goes in general festival thats bigger than us so its fine.

00:12:52: So I Think That It Should Be Free.

00:12:56: Everybody Should Be.

00:12:57: We Are Free Not Take Films And Filmmakers are free not to come to us.

00:13:01: It's okay, I think it is part of the game.

00:13:02: Are

00:13:02: there other festivals especially those with a non-fiction focus that inspire you or did maybe look at and admire a lot?

00:13:12: Well i think many festivals are interesting in different profiles.

00:13:18: At the moment, I have a feeling that the big non-fiction festivals are quite different from each other and it's good.

00:13:24: So there is some initiative or somethings which i'm admiring looking at in other festivals but no festival where we want to become exactly what we're happy with.

00:13:38: The fact of taking place in Nyon is also very particular compared to Amsterdam or Copenhagen for instance like you know some ideas, some projects.

00:13:50: Some initiatives that are inspiring but in general I think the profiles are different.

00:13:55: Yesterday at The Opening Ceremony which was the first opening ceremony that i have seen here... ...I remember there with a sentence it wasn't spoken by YOU!

00:14:03: There was another orator who said we're together as long as we watch together.

00:14:08: It's only my second vision of the rail But I cannot help but notice That this audience is pretty much middle class Pretty able body, pretty academic.

00:14:19: So how much are we actually together on a social level?

00:14:23: Yeah

00:14:23: it's good question.

00:14:25: I think that there're different things at play here.

00:14:28: First the city where in.

00:14:29: i would also add if you look at local audience It is rather old and rich town And this was born of our audience.

00:14:39: Then for instance have prices affordable And we haven't been able to, for instance organize a partnership with the railway so that it's cheaper.

00:15:06: Of course, you know like we can do whatever we want but still people in Geneva or people in Lausanne from different contexts would have a hard time paying the train to come.

00:15:16: So that's an issue.

00:15:17: of course.

00:15:18: In regard where I would disagree with you is that in regards to disabilities We are working really-really hard on that part and i think were doing better job than many our corresponding festivals in Switzerland for sure.

00:15:30: And we had lots system which allow impaired people any kind of impairment part in screenings and it works well.

00:15:38: For instance, today we had a screening with both... In French.

00:15:41: we call it audio description on how its called in English but is like the description of the film in parallel.

00:15:46: also Description that describes Both The Text And The Sound With Like Signs.

00:15:51: Q&A.

00:15:52: We have another one tomorrow and we organize all the theater for wheelchairs.

00:15:57: So we also have activities That are dedicated to people Who have migrated To Switzerland who organized Screening.

00:16:05: They come accompanied by someone.

00:16:07: so we have a lot of actually activities that are trying to.

00:16:10: you know break That but I agree with.

00:16:12: there is a financial thing.

00:16:14: We have a hard time bridging.

00:16:15: another important aspect that i've been encountering A lot at many many festivals online viewing.

00:16:21: yes, they Are even festivals who Have Online Accreditations.

00:16:24: do You feel in any way that this maybe threatens the actual festival experience?

00:16:28: Is that really what a festival it's about like watching Many films that not meeting people discussing things all these.

00:16:34: yeah Yes, but I mean you know actually we are contradicting yourself because for us the online offer is really aimed at people that cannot attend a festival.

00:16:45: Both for financial reasons and physical reason or geographical reasons.

00:16:49: so in theory it works very well.

00:16:52: Last year we doubled our entries.

00:16:55: For instance someone who's in Zurich can't attend festivals for twenty five francs gets to watch many films on-line No question, but like in terms of expanding our audience to us.

00:17:08: It's a way to do it.

00:17:08: I hear you and he have heard this argument In the past But still i want To point out offering A substitution is only Offering a substitution And never The real thing and especially in Terms Of people who are Financially kept from attending a festival.

00:17:22: This can Never be enough when As somebody From underclass will never accept a second-rate Solution instead of getting the Real Thing that middle class People Have.

00:17:31: last Question What would you hope most for the future of film festivals to happen so that all the film festivals can proliferate and continue?

00:17:41: Well, I think it's just... In Switzerland as well.

00:17:46: in other countries we know that cinemas have a hard time still since Covid.

00:17:50: And I feel like festivals are really important part-to-play regarding diversity of cinema like films being offered basically continue because I know that we are entering harder years.

00:18:05: Financially they have cuts everywhere, you can see them coming and so i just hope festivals can continue.

00:18:15: not too, you know... Not a weakening of the cinematic landscape and film landscape that we have today with people who are watching more streaming platforms.

00:18:26: Not so much TV anymore YouTube Three seconds reels on their phone.

00:18:31: I'm doing it as well but i think We do need to make sure That everything has become really poor And narrow-minded.

00:18:41: So i think festivals have an important role in terms of diversity.

00:18:44: Thank you so much for this interview, Emily Bougé!