00:00:00: Finally, I got him.

00:00:01: John Wilson!

00:00:02: I followed him in Copenhagen after seeing his film The History of Concrete on Sundays and now i finally have him here with me for an interview.

00:00:11: Hi John!

00:00:12: Hey um...I didn't know you saw it Sunday?

00:00:16: Then again at Copenhagen, but it was impossible to catch you there.

00:00:19: But now we're here in this room.

00:00:21: Let's talk concrete.

00:00:22: Sure You told how you wanted make the film about concrete and actually is pretty much about concrete.

00:00:28: I was surprised.

00:00:29: How much?

00:00:30: It actually deals with concrete.

00:00:32: So how did you get that idea?

00:00:33: Yeah i feel like The movie started And There were a lot more Concrete In it To begin With But I Shaved away A lot of it Even though theres still alot in the Movie about anything that I'm doing.

00:00:47: There has to be the concrete stuff in there, no matter what even if i drift really far away from

00:00:52: it.

00:00:53: How hard was It To Get The Sponsoring?

00:00:55: Because we see you're trying to get sponsoring and people just look at you blankly like why concrete?

00:01:02: Yeah...I knew That It Was Gonna Be Really Hard And To Get People Excited About It part of the challenge that I really like.

00:01:08: If i had to pitch any one-of-the episodes from How To as a standalone movie, I would have just as much hard time doing it because they don't seem very interesting on this subject.

00:01:22: but...I try and give you all vegetables about something concrete while making your own relationship with this stuff of the world.

00:01:37: Once you begin to think about something like concrete and how flawed it is, I think it can put you in kind of an anxiety loop... I'll speak for myself.

00:01:46: i guess yeah there's a lot of really depressing trivia about this stuff-I needed a way to make it funny still!

00:01:52: And that's always part of the challenge that I like and trying to pick the subject matter that's the hardest to make fun.

00:01:58: Were they're inspiratious?

00:01:59: Kindof felt things like system history.

00:02:01: Yeah absolutely one off the

00:02:04: best.

00:02:06: I think part of the inspiration was just this book about concrete that i read where The author said he wanted to write it because He didn't see anyone else who had written It yet.

00:02:15: and I felt a similar way About This film, you know There's there's A lot Of different essay Films That I Think About All The Time Whenever I'm Making Work.

00:02:23: Los Angeles plays itself for kind of strange Municipal Instructional Videos That Like Teach You About Material.

00:02:30: Yeah.

00:02:30: Its Hard To Say Exactly What The Inspiration For This Was.

00:02:34: How Much material that you actually shoot because concrete is kind of everywhere.

00:02:39: So I suppose he could just go endlessly on?

00:02:41: Yeah, i shot a lot for this movie and ended up not using a lot of it Just Because...I needed to get out of my system To begin with- I shot here in Switzerland very early On but all the Concrete was kinda too nice Which

00:02:56: could be an universal thing about Switzerland!

00:02:58: Yeah..i

00:02:59: don't know It's....I think everythings well maintained Here Brutalist pieces of architecture all around the US and Europe, but I ended up using almost none of it.

00:03:09: I felt like that story had kind of been told.

00:03:10: people are already celebrate this material in a way That i find A bit obnoxious sometimes And I kinda wanted to invert Like our perception Of This Material Not as The Thing That Creates These

00:03:22: Lots Of Fascist Architecture

00:03:23: Yeah, And Like Stark Fascists Like Stuff Also

00:03:25: Stelling This Architecture Basically Every Suppressive Architecture Has Had A Thing For Concrete True

00:03:30: You Know.

00:03:31: But Then you also Have This Classical Architecture same time, which is like I think sometimes equally adopted by kind of fascist governments and stuff.

00:03:39: Like that?

00:03:40: I feel like modernism has run them up in a way but also so as this classical architecture.

00:03:46: So i'm not really sure what I am proposing with the movie just want people to think more deeply about our cities are made out

00:03:53: And actually it's pretty interesting aspect.

00:03:57: You already said you see that we're surrounded by something, and that everybody thinks is pretty solid, but it's not.

00:04:07: Would you like to talk about in case there are some metaphorical implications regarding politics on a social system or would just say no?

00:04:14: It's really just concrete... Yeah

00:04:16: I think-I think its'a really kind of potent metaphor for lot different things The Hollywood industry as we knew it collapsing and cracks in the foundation reforming, you know, metaphorically anyway.

00:04:27: But y'know i don't want be too heavy handed because theres alot of puns that could have carried the film, and I kind of was trying to avoid

00:04:35: it.

00:04:35: It's also in many aspects a film about your own position at that moment?

00:04:39: Your own state.

00:04:40: did you move from this fame off-the-series to suddenly feeling like you're unknown again?

00:04:46: How was it to bring that aspect of yourself out there?

00:04:49: And Did You Move Around Between Putting More or Less Of Yourself

00:04:53: In It ?

00:04:59: honest, the most real world stuff in there.

00:05:05: I wanted to put that process of pitching just because I want it genuinely teach people what its like cause.

00:05:12: i feel actually getting something made is a bit black box for a lot filmmakers and they don't know economically how things were myself included totally new to this.

00:05:22: I did want it to be genuinely instructional in that way, even though it meant making me seem like the pathetic documentarian who cannot get his agent or friends you know...to make this

00:05:33: thing.".

00:05:33: I feel showing vulnerabilities like that eases tension within an audience and kind of makes it more relatable.

00:05:40: That's why i like speaking with a second person just because you think about yourself as the narrator but your also watching something from POV.

00:05:49: so its almost feels Like you're in a video game that You don't have to control and it's just kind of taking you from one place To the next.

00:05:56: You actually visit A lot Of places, And sometimes we might wonder like how to get In there or Get in contact with The people who run the place?

00:06:05: And Manage to get all this this footage.

00:06:08: So was It Sometimes difficult and where There are Places Where you were like you would Have loved to film in there Or With those guys but you Would Just not able to get through them.

00:06:17: We didn't really had That much trouble without access.

00:06:20: I think, i went to go film in a few concerts but we-I wasn't allowed to film inside of there.

00:06:25: so I would just like... I ended up hanging out with the people outside of the concert and following them to different places.. I cut alot of that!

00:06:31: I think the footprint was so small it's literally me.... I could be pretty nimble in situations like this.

00:06:37: The less smaller crew you have ,the more seriously they take you And sometimes its easier for us To get access Especially when your really honest about what your movie is about.

00:06:48: Most of it was just about concrete.

00:06:50: That usually shut people up when I told them that's what my movie is all about.

00:06:53: Well,

00:06:53: there are some really concrete aspects.

00:06:56: you said they didn't fit anymore in the film because enough would have loved to be in there?

00:07:02: About concrete specifically.

00:07:03: Yeah!

00:07:03: About concrete...I

00:07:04: did not want give any easy answers.

00:07:08: The number one thing people talk with me after i show a movie.

00:07:12: They come off and tell me they know the formula for Roman Concrete.

00:07:16: Can't say

00:07:16: I do

00:07:18: breathing.

00:07:18: I knew what it was, but i just didn't want to put in there because for me that's a bit of dead end and you know...I like to continue adding questions instead.

00:07:31: So

00:07:33: it is because he's like this person that would be very easy to make fun of, but you never made fun off.

00:07:52: And we always take him very seriously.

00:07:54: kind of shows the humane aspect.

00:07:56: was He always ready to be in film or Was there a point where?

00:07:59: You thought maybe I should not put that private story In their.

00:08:03: how did she feel about?

00:08:04: and you end?

00:08:05: are you still on contact?

00:08:06: I really liked Jack immediately just Because he was really confident.

00:08:09: i'm Always in this kind of anxiety loop Of self-doubt with creative ideas.

00:08:15: It's like bad until I'm finished usually.

00:08:17: He didn't really have that anxiety, he was just like excited to play music and didn't Really question anything Like That.

00:08:22: I really admired him for that.

00:08:24: And if you felt a positive creative partner because i spent A year or a half with Him over time There's kind of no floor low enough To how silly You can make someone look So it's why even start?

00:08:41: is in this person, and how can we all relate with this person?

00:08:46: That's usually the challenge.

00:08:47: And are you still

00:08:48: in contact?

00:08:48: Yeah!

00:08:49: I want to have a premiere on my island... This bar that he played at called Mr.

00:08:54: Beery's Is Closing—I wanna like perform there before they close….

00:08:58: I'm excited for him be at The New York Premier.

00:09:00: It seems as though this film has really been going off since the Sundance premiere.

00:09:04: so your seem-to-have-for-a–new face of this fame where you just lost it or escaped from what?

00:09:10: How do you feel about it, actually?

00:09:12: Do you feel like you escaped fame or that you lost it.

00:09:15: I don't think the level of aim has changed too drastically.

00:09:19: Maybe fame is one word maybe it's like prominence so people know who are through this media presence.

00:09:25: So if you'll feel like that It was a good thing and then went down Or did kind of missed it...I

00:09:31: Like feeling anonymous when i can.

00:09:33: That why I didn't really show myself in work much because they didn't want to be a kind of visually identifiable part as anything.

00:09:44: I think people might recognize me from interviews or something like that.

00:09:47: it doesn't really make anything harder, i think people are usually really respectful if they see me filming or something in public.

00:09:53: They just kinda let me do my thing...I don't know what My Level Of Fame is.

00:09:58: It's all very strange To Me.

00:10:00: Its Like I Feel Like I Can Walk Around New York And No One Will Notice Me.

00:10:04: But Im Also At This Dinner With Kim Kardashian and I Don'T Know why I'm there.

00:10:08: It does freak me out a bit, like wow they're just being perceived as anything you know.

00:10:14: but i can't stop making this work and i just try not to think about the audience when i'm making it or where its gonna go or who's going to see it?

00:10:21: I've wanted make it exercise some demon from internally A

00:10:27: concrete demon!

00:10:29: Haunted by concrete.

00:10:32: Now that you made this documentary feature film Do you feel like going more into features or more back to series?

00:10:40: I'm

00:10:40: not sure which direction i am gonna go.

00:10:42: This was definitely a challenge, but I know how to have better attitude about it.

00:10:46: if make feature in the future Doing another show could be really cool just because that's consistent paycheck.

00:10:52: people can get and pay your friends instead of having work on this favor economy until thing is finished.

00:11:06: on work with John Willis.

00:11:07: Yes, ideas for both series and features just...

00:11:11: You already hear first?

00:11:12: Contextional.

00:11:12: How did the audience actually?

00:11:14: you mentioned that many came up to your and told you wow I know even more about a concrete than you do guy.

00:11:20: so we made it whole film That

00:11:21: was asking for it.

00:11:22: yeah

00:11:23: So were.

00:11:23: there are lot of strange or strong reactions too.

00:11:26: It's so far.

00:11:28: Yeah people like tell me what they now about Concrete after every screening which predictable People have much more emotional reaction to Jack, the musician's storyline.

00:11:39: Then I thought when a tragic moment happens in the film... ...I didn't really emotionally know how to feel about it.. ..I didn' think that anyone would care if this happened!

00:11:48: It was just some random thing.

00:11:52: but yeah people were very touched by The Musician's whole story.

00:11:56: Was

00:11:57: is hurt.

00:11:57: you get this film?

00:11:59: You got accepted at Sundance and thats probably the biggest of the International Film Festival to get this film into the festival circuit?

00:12:07: Yeah, we submitted a Sundance and they told us in the eleventh hour it has been easier to get these two festivals than any other thing that I've tried getting at the festivals for sure.

00:12:17: You know there's was lot of intersecting factors that might lead into that.

00:12:20: At the very least...I feel like it proves concrete is marketable subject matter despite what industry will try.

00:12:27: make you think

00:12:28: Invest in concrete.

00:12:29: yeah!

00:12:29: It still gonna sell You only said idea both ideas for films and series, but would you like to?

00:12:37: Tell a little bit about it, like any wood maybe cotton.

00:12:39: This

00:12:40: thing I do will...I think have similar flavor to it.

00:12:43: The thing with the Concrete movie is that everyone was trying get me change my style in away.

00:12:49: People were afraid i would be doing same things how-to?

00:12:51: Didn't want invest into this

00:12:53: How-to feature film?

00:12:54: Yeah!

00:12:55: How-do-the-feature.

00:12:56: And so confused by that Because So many amazing artists made their careers Doing over and again Hallmark.

00:13:03: even

00:13:04: They literally say that on screen.

00:13:06: It's like all they do is tell the same story over and over again.

00:13:10: and it's the only cable network that is growing.

00:13:13: Not I really care about viewers per se, just make me think of what... Why even want a viewer?

00:13:19: What is a viewer like as a viewer or dollar amount Is something you use to get your next project going?

00:13:25: Like what is it?

00:13:26: And then i started thinking whether playing into whole hallmark was my.

00:13:31: being a Hallmark movie by doing same thing over again Was winning way too.

00:13:35: do things Or try new in audience.

00:13:40: It's like I liked when artists evolved and I plan to... Actually,

00:13:42: that is the one thing i should ask Like did you ever get any trouble because we gave away a hallmark formula from writing course on The Actors Guild?

00:13:50: I haven't gotten into trouble yet for anything but You know We'll see what movie comes out.

00:13:55: No!

00:13:56: We got permission From The Writers Guild To use That footage And from Instructor To Use the Footage Even though I wasn't supposed to be filming it But I think that instructor I found later Was familiar with my work with us, like using it.

00:14:09: As long as we told her more or less what was going to be contextually in the movie which is a total problem.

00:14:15: From

00:14:15: all people that you talked about?

00:14:17: Was there anybody who would take my footage out?

00:14:19: The one thing I had to take-out part of John Mayer's song because he couldn't afford using five seconds but everything else was fine.

00:14:28: Are you actually shooting material right now and working on something?

00:14:32: Yeah!

00:14:32: I just finished two other short movies.

00:14:37: do it right now.

00:14:38: I hope

00:14:38: they don't get rejected at Copenhagen Docs like Ted!

00:14:43: I did film a little stuff here in Neon, but mostly just on my iPhone

00:14:47: Nice so we will be looking out for that.

00:14:49: So thank you so much John Wilson for doing this interview.

00:14:52: Yeah thanks for asking.